Interview: Obnoxious PRCs who Urinate in Public

I have seen so many pieces on social media of late on PRCs (ie. China-nationals) acting in a disgraceful manner in terms of relieving themselves or even defecating in public, causing offence to Singaporeans and many around the world. I have interviewed a friend whom we will call Ms Chen. She is originally from China but has worked many years in the UK in the tourism sector, taking care of the needs of high-end Chinese tourists when they visit the UK. She will be able to give my readers far more insight into the situation. I got to know her when working with PRCs this year.

Limpeh: Ms Chen, thank you so much for doing this. Can we begin by you telling us a little bit about yourself please?

Chen: I was originally from Tianjin and I studied English at university. When I first started working in tourism, I was helping English speaking tourists in China, in Beijing - I worked as a guide, I handled the logistics and bookings and it wasn't a bad living, but I wanted to see the world. So when the opportunity came to work in London, I managed to get an internal transfer within this company. It is a somewhat different job - I used to deal with tourists from all over: Sweden, Canada, Australia, USA, Germany, South Africa, Iceland, Denmark, New Zealand, Austria... Now I deal only with Chinese tourists in China - so whilst I am based in London, the irony is that I spend most of my day speaking Mandarin. When I was back in Beijing, I spent most of my days speaking English. The Chinese tourists whom I deal with in the UK now speak very little or no English at all - they need to be taken care of, every single aspect of their stay has covered. We cannot just let them loose in central London as they may get quite lost, given the language barrier.

Limpeh: What do you make of the reports in social media about China nationals urinating and shitting in public?

Chen: I am mortified, embarrassed. It is such a disgrace. These Chinese people travel abroad and they really 丢中国人的脸! They disgrace their country's pride, so whenever I show up in a place with a bus full of Chinese tourists, I now worry if they will already have such a bad impression of Chinese tourists, of Chinese people because of such reports in the media. I am embarrassed, I feel bad, really, it shouldn't happen in this day and age.

Limpeh: If I may ask, do you ever have your tourists behave badly like that, shitting in public in Hyde Park?

Chen: No, thankfully - you see, our company handles high end tourists, our clients pay a lot of money to fly to the UK in style, they stay in very nice 5-star hotels, they have a relaxing schedule where they have nice meals in expensive restaurants and it is designed for rich people. We tend to get a lot of rich housewives of businessmen - what you call ladies of leisure. They spend thousands of pounds with us on this trip and probably spend even more on shopping whilst they are here. They love going to Bicester Village - they are always asking me when we are going there. They are not the kind of ugly Chinese tourists who willtake a dump outside Harrods or in the British Museum. But you're somewhat unlikely to encounter these kinds of Chinese tourists in London or New York as it costs a lot of money to travel long haul like that, you're probably far more likely to find them in other cities within China or other Asian cities like Hong Kong, Singapore or Bangkok. This kind of anti-social behaviour is really far worse within China itself.

Limpeh: But you did hear about the sign at the Louvre in Paris, which is only written in Chinese, specifically warning the Chinese visitors not to shit in public - like no other nationalities need to be told about that rule, it is not even written in English: everyone else seems to understand that you should take a shit in the toilet, not in front of the Mona Lisa. Why do you think that is the case?

Chen: It is bloody disgraceful that it has come to that - presumably some Chinese tourist did that despicable act of having a shit in a public space at the Louvre, that's why they had to put that sign up. You know the saying, 无风不起浪 (the equivalent of there's no smoke without fire). There was also that case of the Chinese teenager who vandalized a pyramid when he was in Egypt. Terrible. What kind of parents does this boy have? What kind of brat have they raised? Well, I am sad to say this, but if you think such displays of behaviour are bad, just wait till you go to some city like Chongqing, Chengdu, Guangzhou or Wuhan... then it is everywhere. You will be surrounded by it. You get to witness such behaviour in small doses outside China, but in China itself... well, what can I say? Especially amongst the poorer folks, the uneducated folks and those who are not used to living in a big city, who are not cosmopolitan.

Limpeh: Can you try to explain to my readers why they behave like that in China? You see, I have traveled around the world and have spent time in rural areas of poorer countries and there is a level of modesty in these more conservative countries which prevent people, women in particular, from urinating or shitting in public.The women themselves would be extremely embarrassed to be seen urinating or shitting, it is a social taboo in their culture, even if they are very poor. So even if a toilet isn't readily available, they would at least hide in the bushes or trees to do it, away from the public gaze. There doesn't seem to be that link between poverty and modesty in other countries. There is this story recently of a PRC woman in Singapore who did her business in full view of the public in front of a train station, she didn't care who was watching, she had no sense of modesty or shame whatsoever. Can you explain this?

Chen: You know, I am mortified when I hear stories like that. It is not just about modesty anymore - it is being extremely inconsiderate, like who is going to clean up the shit she has left on the floor like that? OK, let me try to explain this to you, you will need to understand the cultural context. Do you know what the population of Tianjin is?

Limpeh: It's probably very big like 10 million.

Chen: Actually it is 13 million. What about Chongqing?

Limpeh: It's huge. It's probably like 20 million.

Chen: Actually it is 30 million. And what about Guangzhou if you include the entire Peal River delta area? 

Limpeh: Probably around 30, 35 million then?

Chen: 44 million - well that figure can be as high as 120 million depending on what you wish to include, it's one huge massive urban area where one city merges into another. You get the idea - these are some very congested, very densely populated Chinese cities and they are growing very, very rapidly. People have been flocking to these cities since the 1990s, when Hukou system was relaxed - the Hukou system pretty much kept people where they were and prevented rural-urban migration when it was in place. Now people are free to move wherever they want and many young people don't want a future on the farms in the rural areas, so they are attracted to the bright lights of the big cities and they flock to Chongqing, Chengdu, Tianjin, Guangzhou and other congested cities like that only to find work as factory fodder in sweatshops. It is a pretty grim reality for them: they work crazy long hours, they get paid very little and their living conditions are appalling. So many rural-urban migrants end up in sweatshops under those conditions.

We're talking conditions akin to army barracks: they have bunk beds in their sleeping quarters and communal toilets - they shower together, eat together, sleep together. They have no concept of personal space - so for example, when European people want to change clothes, they want to go into a private room, shut the door so no one can see them in the act of undressing. In China, they don't have that luxury, personal space is a luxury they cannot afford. So they get used to other people seeing them in the nude, they no longer care who gets to see their naked bodies when they change clothes, shower, go to the toilet... Men and women alike, they just don't care as they get so used to it. So it is not about being liberal per se, it's simply a question of, if you have never had the luxury of personal space for modesty, then you don't know what it is. That is the cultural context we are dealing with here.

Now we're not just talking about the poorest of the poor who work in sweatshop style factories in China's cities, if you were to look at the kind of conditions that poor people in China live in, those conditions are appalling by Western standards. We're talking about 4 or 5 people sharing a room, sometimes three generations of a family sharing a very small flat. If you are rich and can afford to buy a big house, then you can have a room for every family member, otherwise you pack them in and you get used to sharing your home with many people. Family members share toilets, bedrooms... everything. They get used to the noise, the total lack of privacy, even seeing each other naked, in the toilet, in a way that would just go against all manners of social norms in the West. Thus their notion of modesty is one that is shaped by poverty and a lack of personal space, rather than any notion of being liberal or progressive.

Let me give you an example. I visited my parents in Tianjin last year and my mother wanted to visit an old friend, so I went with her to see that old friend who lived in Xiqing district. I went with my mother and when we got there, my mother needed the toilet. There was somebody in the toilet having a shower at that time and my mother just went in to use the toilet; she said hello to the person having a shower and neither of them felt awkward about seeing each other like that. If I had accidentally entered the toilet whilst a friend was having a shower, I would be conditioned to apologize and that would cause great embarrassment for both parties. I guess what is acceptable in China is a social taboo in the West. But it's like if you raise a child who has never been given sugar, then the child would not crave for sweet treats like chocolate or candy. Many Chinese people don't care for privacy as they've never had it.

Things are improving in China with the provision of public toilets - when I was growing up, there was a lack of such public facilities and people would just go to the toilet at the side of the road when the need arose. I'm afraid it will take a lot of time for social norms to change - Chinese parents these days still allow their children to do their business in public, because for them, that was what they did when they were little, so they are conditioned to believe that is acceptable. So even when much better toilet facilities are available particularly in the big cities, they are but white elephants if people are not motivated to use them. Whereas in these other third world countries you talk about where women have more modesty, well I suppose these are less densely populated places where at least they have some space to hide themselves in the bushes or forests if they want to take a dump. Try finding such spaces in the middle of a Chinese city, they don't exist. Every square inch of the city centre is occupied, full of people, there is no space.

What stops people from just pissing or shitting in the public in the West and other countries is modesty - they don't want complete strangers to get to see them in the act of pissing or shitting. Well the problem in China is that the modesty simply isn't there, people just don't care who gets to see them naked as they are so used to it growing up in such cramped and crowded conditions. This creates a clash of cultures when such Chinese people travel out of China only to realize that others people from other countries have a very different concept of modesty. 

Limpeh: Were you less conscious of nudity and personal space when you were in China?

Chen: Definitely. I did grow up in China after all. But then again, I am also a perceptive and sensitive person - I am aware of the effects of my actions on others and so when I am in England, I have to obey the social norms here. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. I am lucky in being well-educated, I have been to university, I got to study English, I got to travel as a child... so I am not quite like other Chinese people who have not had those privileges and I do not take that for granted. Other Chinese who have not had the kind of upbringing I've had, well, they can behave in an obnoxious manner abroad. Even I find them irritating and I am the one who has to deal with them for a living!

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A37bX2Pbecg

I remember being on a beach in Sweden recently when I was on holiday there, it was so serene and peaceful - I was just sitting there on the rocks, being at one with nature... Then came a group of Chinese tourists who were loud, obnoxious and good grief, they sat down pretty near me and I thought, the beach is so big, why do you have to sit so near me and spoil my day like that? You see, people like them are used to others invading their space back in China, they never had the luxury of personal space, so they don't know what it means to respect the personal space of others be it in terms of physical proximity or noise - so they sit close to me, they shout so loudly that I can hear them and in the end, I had to gather up my things and move if I wanted to keep my personal space. If they had no concept of personal space, then they cannot even begin to understand why I have personal space and how they should try to respect that.